Religion vs Evolution

[fishki]

Ok so this started running thru my mind today after Nemos class was aked if they believed in God. Everyone said yes.... except nemo. I never taught him to not believe, I have let him make his own decisions based on what he sees/learns from the world around him. I dont believe I have influenced him in any way, one way or the other. ANd no, we do not attend church.

So now I have many questions regarding what could have happned, and which way the odds lie.

First off, I cannot say I do not believe in God, and we were created, but on the other hand, evolution has swayed me toward that side and I cannot say I do not believe in evolution and we crawled out of the primordial ooze.

SO thoughts, input, arguments or decisions.... discuss.

[WHO_99]

oh shiiit ETHINIC WAR!!! lol

i like to think its both, but you'll have to bare with me with teh explanation, i'm not good at it lol. i like to think that there is some type of Almighty figure who may have done something like create the building blocks for all things to come, then just let them go as the please. It may sound stupd, but the book Angels and Demons had a good example when they are talking about antimatter; they said a long ass time ago it was basically just space and antimatter until onday something created some type of matter that expanded the antimatter and created everything, they said it was Divine Intervention. While i'm not saying this is exactlyt he case, i believe its an interesting idea that god just gave a nudge to create everything and sat back to watch.
Also, i don't have any theories on it, but i like to believe that there is something that judges us after we die. Whether its karma, St. Peter, Xenu, Cthulhu, heaven, hell, or any other idea, i think there should be something to judge us on our lives, the good and the bad otherwise its all a bit pointless.

i'm not really religious or anything, i just say im Hindu because thats what i grew up with, but i do think there is some type of god.

[gabrile23]

Wow this is a really tough subject for most people to approach. For a long time I wasn't sure what I belived but eventually I just couldn't see any evidence for a god. Evolution and science show us how we and the world formed over last 4.54 billion years (according to wikipedia lol).
Their might be some being that caused every thing too happen but if their is I really doubt he really cares much about our little planet. The unvirse is massive beyond any humans uderstanding. We are just a very very small part of it.
You raised nemo well if he stuck to his beliefs even though everyone else had the opposite opinion.
Also why would a teacher ask that?

[twistedblister]

I really want to be the goof on the thread. Ill make up for this i promise

DEVO !







haaaaaaaaaaaa who with the race war. funny.

wow nice reply gabe and who.

fish way to go thinking openly. what you belive is up to you as long as you can sandbox it and not interfere with other peoples freedoms. that is easier typed then done though.

ok some seriousness. I was raised Catholic. nuff said. but science class wasx hardcore science then there was religion class. hard core Catholicism. The two were separate but always intertwined. Nce I dislike our country insistence on religious righteousness. God does not play football if IT watches football its probably pissed that everyone that scores a touchdown did so because of his help.

Sorry segwayed on that thought.

I lost my sense of religion when I was 16 or so. I think humans have a deep seated need for some sort of creation story. Like who says probably a lot of people are rational thinkers that belive. Lots of scientists claim to be religious. I like the fact you chucked cathulu into the mix man. Bravo.
I have been watching an awesome pbs doc about India and its 10 something thousand year history. If anyone is interested I might find a link to a trailer on youtube.


Gabe eveloution is a scientific theroy. dont panic people. gravity is a scientific theory. do research on the idea of scientific theory before you misuse the word people.
if people want to dissagree on weather it was physics or god till they turn blue good for them. as long as they let me live my life. ( some times i feel like we really cant.) i could solve a few of our countrys problems by changing one or two laws but i would problaby be killed for doing so becase of self rightous religous government.
Gabe has a nice thought about our little patch of the universe. NPR had tweets this week on obseritorys finding habitable planets in distant star systems. i think the proof of alien intellegence will change the way we think as a species forever.


IDK. No one does. Thats the trap and release from it all. No one can tell you for certain so keep that as your slef defense go to retort when cornered people.

Personally I dont think we need a moral compass kindness is easy enough to understand and so is cruelty the rest we figure out as we go. I actually told my wife when I die to feed me to the vultures or donate my body to the science museum or research facility. If my soul comes back let them deal with it.


religous intolerance in any form is an ugly thing. Sometimes i dont feel like we are so much different from the other theocracys out there.

[WHO_99]

defo agree with you TB. forgot to include that point in my post lol. i'm perfectly fine with people believing in anything they want as long as they dont' try to force other to believe it too, or try to harm someone.
a funny thing i found on stumble up on described it best, can't find the link but it went somethign like this..."Religion is like a penis. its fine if you have one, its find if you're proud of it, but don't try to shove it down my throat."

also, a random think i found interesting about hinduism is that the anthropomorphic monkey god Hanuman is referred to as Hanuman Dada (said in an indian accent lol), and Dada means grandfather on the fathers side, and he's technically considered everyones grandfather, in my mind it seems like a hint towards evoluvion.



ALL HAIL CTHULHU!!!!

[twistedblister]

CThulu for me too please.


cool post and yeah hey i appreciate your penis but dont stick it in my throat sounds like pretty solid words to live by.

Dude who nice explanation of that Hindu Diety. I have a PBS documentary about india and one temple that this guy visits is decorated with gods on the outside. its massive and they are all different.

in a couple of billion years our sun will run out of fuel and swell in size. destoying the inner solar system. knowing this i think humanity should be pooling lots of money into research to prepare to evacuate and find a new home. not sure that qualifies as a religous thought but it was on my mind.

[fishki]

wow great thoughts everyone... damn gab, i never put the thought into my head when i typed the first post about the entire universe, i was in the immediate vicinity of earth

but yeah, if he did have a hand in creating the universe, then someone is very busy watching over everything. The cosmos is a very large place and I dont think we could be alone, if so, we are very alone if earth is the only planet that was in the right place at the right time to create more than single cell organisms.

In fact the earth itself evolved, about 4.5 billion years ago, from a magma pool into what we know it as today. Also the moon, about 30 million years later.

That problem being that a planet must fall into what we define as a habitable zone within a planetary system, in which the habitable zone is the distance from a star where an earth like planet can maintain liquid water on the surface and maintain earth like life. But that is carbon based life. I believe there would be other life forms non carbon based out there somewhere, In the entire universe why would it only be carbon based and only on a goldilocks planet?

Surely those favoring creationism dont stop with our planet? (I am not sure of the answer for that) If so I feel that would be a cruel joke to leave us to our selves in a universe that we would never be able to find others. And if so, why create the universe at all? We only need our little planet and a few stars at nite to make us wonder what the hell its all about.

I personally think Darwin had it right, we crawled up from the ooze at some point and and became what we are today, so far its only been a blink of the eye in cosmic terms that we have been here. We are surely destined in some distant future to go exploring the stars, hell the core is only 50000 light years away,who knows whos on the other side, maybe by the time we have that technology we will have evolved into something we would not recognize today.


On another note, I have nothing against those that favor christianity, nor any other belief, everyone is entitled to their own faith. I only know what I have come to accept for the most part.

and tb, yeah you have it right, at some point we will need to be looking for another home if the human race is still around at that time



depending on the star, heres the formula

You got to admire where we are exactly within our solar system, the edges of what makes this planet habitable are pretty close.

If we were 930,000 miles farther out, we would have global glaciation.
If we were 3,720,000 miles closer, the oceans would not have condensed.

[twistedblister]

wow. rihgt on fish man. green zone baby its all about the green zone.

I think i saw segan explain that formula. cool math.

[gabrile23]

I am always blow away by the size and scope of the universe.
The green zone yeah you gotta have the right size planet with the right elements in it and be in the right place to have life form like it does on our planet. Not to say theirs not others ways for life to form because I have no clue.

But if it was'nt like that or something happened in the past to change the course of evolution, like the mass extinction dinosaurs, we proboly would'nt be around to relize how diffcult life is to form.

I was talking to someone the other day about how as species humans are not that strong, fast or big but what we do have is intelligence and the ablity to work together to accomplish amazing things and to teach the next generation what we've learned ...
hopefully.

[twistedblister]

I am always blow away by the size and scope of the universe.


But if it was'nt like that or something happened in the past to change the course of evolution, like the mass extinction dinosaurs, we proboly would'nt be around to relize how diffcult life is to form.

I was talking to someone the other day about how as species humans are not that strong, fast or big but what we do have is intelligence and the ablity to work together to accomplish amazing things and to teach the next generation what we've learned ...
hopefully.

Green zone is the starter for many differing branches of life. Yeah mass extinctions have helped clear the way for us. without them we could never have evlolved.
its true that we are not that strong individually gabe but we are awsome pack hunters. I saw a pack of baboons chase a lepord up a tree and make it abandon its cub. that is fear and understanding. the intellegence helps an ass load too. cool post man.

[royalsting]

defo agree with you TB. forgot to include that point in my post lol. i'm perfectly fine with people believing in anything they want as long as they dont' try to force other to believe it too, or try to harm someone.
a funny thing i found on stumble up on described it best, can't find the link but it went somethign like this..."Religion is like a penis. its fine if you have one, its find if you're proud of it, but don't try to shove it down my throat."

also, a random think i found interesting about hinduism is that the anthropomorphic monkey god Hanuman is referred to as Hanuman Dada (said in an indian accent lol), and Dada means grandfather on the fathers side, and he's technically considered everyones grandfather, in my mind it seems like a hint towards evoluvion.



ALL HAIL CTHULHU!!!!

I just joined this forum to clarify your point.

Well there is nothing wrong with the Indian accent for you to "lol" about it, honestly.

Secondly "DADA" has two meanings in a few Indian Languages one of which is "Grandfather" but other one is "Elder brother" and Lord Hanuman is regarded as "Elder brother" and not "Grandfather". "Hanuman Dada" is the 11th avatar of "Lord Shiva".

Regards,

Indian

[fishki]

wow, thanks for the clarification royalsting. Hopefully you took no offense at the post you quoted as I know none was intended by it. Its nice to have different cultures post, and everyones opinion is welcome.

please feel free to join us in any discussions or start your own, everyone is welcome here.

[Drew]

defo agree with you TB. forgot to include that point in my post lol. i'm perfectly fine with people believing in anything they want as long as they dont' try to force other to believe it too, or try to harm someone.
a funny thing i found on stumble up on described it best, can't find the link but it went somethign like this..."Religion is like a penis. its fine if you have one, its find if you're proud of it, but don't try to shove it down my throat."

also, a random think i found interesting about hinduism is that the anthropomorphic monkey god Hanuman is referred to as Hanuman Dada (said in an indian accent lol), and Dada means grandfather on the fathers side, and he's technically considered everyones grandfather, in my mind it seems like a hint towards evoluvion.



ALL HAIL CTHULHU!!!!

I just joined this forum to clarify your point.

Well there is nothing wrong with the Indian accent for you to "lol" about it, honestly.


Regards,

Indian

Well I haven't spoken up in this thread. But I think you have misunderstood the "lol" royalsting. He is not lol'ing at the accent but at himself really as he tries to pronounce the words to himself at home, probably with a terrible accent.

People try to imitate accents all the time and mean no offense by it. Even accents within their own country/language. Its how different accents are created within a country or language. I grew up in the Midwest and now I live on the west coast. I don't feel I talk any different, but when I visit home I'm like wow everyone talks so different here.

And I too thank you for the clarification.

- sent from my Wired Evo -

[RYANMILLER36]

[fishki]

I tried to talk to some friends once like I was from australia.... I failed miserably and prolly would have gotten my butt kicked by someone from there

RYAN!!!....ryan...Ryan...

[nymphetomine]

RYAN has spoken....

australian accent is annoying, i like the british accent

[gabrile23]

All I see is a bad image in ryans post. Oh well I think I got the idea.

[royalsting]

Hey all,

No offense taken :). Its nice to be part of a community where people actually take things litely even after a little harsh reply by me. Really nice :).

I understand the accent part, it can be difficult for others to speak the way some community does and it might actually sound funny.

[krazykat]

I believe in a singular god. I do enjoy greek/roman mythology though. I find any religion that offers the worship of multiple gods to be completely valid. I just choose not to put my personal beliefs in those said religions. The singular god I believe in is the one who is posited by the Christian bibles and religious documents of the catholic church dating back to the dark ages. I on the other hand DO NOT believe in the use of the bible in the worship of "God". I find it to be one of the most atrocious non-humane documents to have ever written. It is most likely filled with misinterpretations, misquotations, and overwhelming bias through its multiple transformations and translations in the past several centuries.

In regards to evolution, it's a lovely and horrid hypothesis. It is lovely in the fact that it offers a logical, appealing, and almost magical way of human development. It is horrid in the fact that it requires so much time to confirm that we will never get to experience its full confirmation or denial. Further on the topic area I only believe in one form of evolution. The two forms being micro and macro evolution. No **** it, i believe in them both. Micro evolution I think is just 100% provable and logical. The only reason macro is rejected is because of the bible loving, close-minded, religious conservatives. (The old sense, not the new)

Life is life, live, have fun, and smile. If a man in the sky wants to place me in hell for believing in evolution, rejecting the bible, and still believing in him, then so be it. I'm sure it is a cozy place anyway.

The bible and basically all literature states that hell is bad. I bring the statement to the table, define good.

Sorry if my entire post was non-coherent. I am just typing as I go and generally forgetting the last line that I wrote